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Uploaded on May 24, 2008
From an interview in Tuscany
by Ingrun Myklebust (Norway)

Transcript:

0:00 Art and Heart
0:02 [Questioner:] I know that
0:04 you have been
0:05 an art teacher, an artist
0:08 for some time
0:10 and, how far can art
0:12 take you,
0:14 take people
0:16 in the search for Truth;
0:18 for who they are?
0:20 [Mooji:] First important thing
0:21 is not the art,
0:23 but the Heart.
0:24 [Q:] The Heart. [M:] Yeah.
0:25 If they are really,
0:27 already…
0:29 some longing is there,
0:30 and how that longing comes
0:31 I cannot say.
0:32 If there is already a longing,
0:34 it’s more for That;
0:36 to find Truth,
0:38 more greater than
0:40 to develop art,
0:43 then you can learn from everything.
0:45 Everything becomes a mirror,
0:47 to one who is sensitive,
0:48 who is…
0:49 whose mind is turned towards
0:51 the Self, the pure Self.
0:53 Then everything,
0:54 it becomes your teacher actually.
0:57 But for most, I mean,
0:58 we indulge these ideas that
1:00 this thing,
1:01 this practice
1:02 will take you to the Self.
1:04 This, I have not found it like that.
1:05 I have found that,
1:08 it’s…
1:10 we can,
1:11 we have this type of
1:14 ability
1:15 to make
1:16 anything
1:18 seem as though it is important.
1:21 Like everything is
1:23 reflecting
1:24 and helping you
1:25 to become more yourself.
1:26 But I have not really seen
1:28 any real evidence
1:29 that any particular
1:31 practice
1:33 or interest,
1:36 outside of the direct urge
1:39 to discover Truth,
1:41 that any of these actually
1:43 are that helpful,
1:45 in themselves, and of themselves.
1:49 [Q:] Why are people so reluctant
1:51 to…
1:52 to go in,
1:54 to find out who they are,
1:55 do you think?
1:56 [M:] Because who they are not
1:57 is very attractive.
2:00 You can play, you can dream,
2:01 you can
2:02 become anything you want.
2:04 It is like this.
2:05 This is the allure of the mind.
2:06 It’s that like this you…
2:09 This is the apparent adventure,
2:11 to become this.
2:12 And even with knowing
2:13 who you are,
2:15 even this play may not stop.
2:16 But it’s not harmful anymore.
2:21 All this universe is somehow
2:23 the kind of playground
2:24 of the Beingness.
2:26 But somehow
2:27 the people they feel
2:28 that there’s a risk,
2:29 there’s a huge sacrifice to make.
2:31 If I have to go
2:33 to discover the Truth,
2:35 then I must give up
2:36 all my sweeties.
2:38 Because they imagine,
2:40 through our
2:42 negative conditioning also,
2:43 cultural and religious conditioning,
2:46 that to find the Truth,
2:48 it will come at a very high price.
2:49 You must give up all
2:51 that is beautiful and enjoyable
2:52 in order to find the Truth.
2:53 It’s a huge lie!
2:55 [Q:] It is a huge lie.
2:56 [M:] It is a huge lie!
2:57 [Q:] So there is no price,
2:58 there’s no sacrifice.
2:59 [M:] There is no price!
3:01 Maybe the sacrifice
3:02 of your
3:03 ignorance.
3:04 [M:] It’s how I would put it.
3:06 [Q:] It’s almost like a great sacrifice.
3:07 [Laugher] 3:09 [Q:] You have advised us to
3:11 realize 100%,
3:13 not 3 /4 .
3:14 [M:] Yes. Yes.
3:17 [Q:] How is 100% different to 3/4?
3:22 [M:] 3/4 in the sense
3:23 of the search for Truth
3:24 is not going to be good enough;
3:26 98% won’t be good enough.
3:27 I mean 98%
3:29 in terms of your attitude.
3:31 Like, somehow,
3:32 if you are keeping something back.
3:34 Sometimes we are holding back
3:36 on something that you feel,
3:38 maybe it’s an attachment
3:39 that you feel,
3:40 ‘I cannot put that to the fire.’
3:42 And by putting it to the fire
3:43 I mean
3:44 to really take the risk,
3:46 the apparent risk
3:47 of exposing something
3:49 that you might
3:50 see to be not true.
3:52 And that you have
3:53 so much investment,
3:55 in this thing
3:57 that you don’t want to take the risk
3:59 to see that it is an illusion.
4:00 So you may hold back.
4:02 And so, this holding back
4:04 is in some way
4:08 a compromise
4:09 you are making yourself.
4:11 Nobody else needs to know about it.
4:13 Silently,
4:14 very subtly,
4:15 you make this contract.
4:17 And so you don’t,
4:18 you don’t move in.
4:19 There’s always a fear
4:20 to surrender completely
4:22 to the Unknown or to,
4:24 or to That which Is,
4:25 because your heart brings some secret.
4:27 [Q:] Hmm…
4:29 Is that what you encourage us
4:31 to do here in Satsang?
4:33 [M:] If you are…
4:34 [Q:] To use the opportunity to…
4:35 [M:] Yes.
4:36 [Q:] discover this?
4:37 [M:] Because I know
4:38 that there is nothing really
4:39 in the Truth to be afraid of.
4:41 [Q:] No. [M:] You see.
4:41 [M:] I know it’s
4:43 what your Heart longs for.
4:45 And that when you,
4:47 when that,
4:48 when the ignorance
4:49 is removed,
4:50 when the doubts are removed,
4:51 and you are again in your
4:53 natural
4:54 state;
4:56 I mean there is,
4:58 it’s effortless.
5:00 And you are fully at peace.
5:03 You are fully alive also!
5:04 You are not
5:05 a Buddha statue.
5:07 You are completely alive
5:08 in this!
5:10 No one has to convince you
5:11 that this is right;
5:13 or this is you.
5:15 None of this is needed.
5:16 You are completely
5:18 empty and in your
5:19 original innocence.
5:20 It’s something very fresh.
5:23 So,
5:25 I would not
5:28 say that somehow
5:30 anything
5:32 less than
5:33 total willingness
5:35 to recognize this
5:37 with completely open eyes,
5:40 be willing
5:41 to move in That;
5:45 any sort of
5:50 put it to the fire;
5:49 that’s been kept a secret
5:47 hesitation or secret or…
5:52 be willing
5:52 to come fully from it.